Top 3

This is mainly for Michal, but if anyone agrees then feel free to say (or if you don’t agree then feel free also).

I don’t like that the number of views is counted as part of the algorithm for picking the top 3 cakes. I don’t think it has ANY bearing on how good a cake is at all. Firstly, there are times when you click on a cake to take a closer look and realise that actually you don’t like it (not trying to be harsh, but lets face it, it’s true!) – there are other scenarios that exist when you look at a cake for reasons other than ‘liking’ it.
Also, there are members who have huge followings on Facebook who are on here and generally people here look at the cakes of those people they follow on facebook – I feel that this then means that those with more fans are more likely to appear in the top 3 even if there are cakes in the top 15 that are better.
Then you have the other scenario whereby people post links to their cakes on other sites, in order to garner more views, thus up their rating.

To me it then becomes more of a competition than an honest representation of what is actually good.

In fact to be honest, I actually think that the top three should solely be the cakes that are the most favourited – even the number of comments doesn’t mean anything, unless you take into consideration the content of the comment – someone could comment on a cake to say something nasty (unlikely but you get my point), so why should that count?

Anyway, I just wanted to see what others thought?

https://www.facebook.com/tortacouture | Perth, Scotland

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23 Replies

Elena Z ...

I whole-heartedly agree with you! My other concern is, since there is only a small worded link to newly posted cakes, as opposed to a photoblock or slideshow, most people will miss it and just look at the trending cakes for the day/moment.

Just my two cents! :)

SarahBeth3 ...

I guess I would say that I think the number of views should be in the “secret formula” but it should bear a much lower amount of importance than the other ingredients. If you look at a cake and decide you don’t like it, you aren’t going to comment or make it a favorite. Usually though I think the thumbnails are big enough that most of the views are because you can tell from the thumbnail it’s a cake good enough or interesting enough to further investigate. This is my humble opinion. Thanks for posting, tortacouture. :)

Raewyn Read - Cakes by Raewyn ...

I totally agree! I have at times been bewildered by some cakes in the Top 3 (no offence to anyone please!) and I had also come to the conclusion that it should be based on how many times people are moved to add the cake into their favourites. Thanks so much Tortacouture for being brave enough to speak up :)

Michal Bulla ...

Thanks for your opinions. Here is my response:

@tortacouture

1. “I don’t think it [number of views] has ANY bearing on how good a cake is at all.”
I don’t agree here with you. If a cake is beautiful or there is something special on it, people use to share it on their pages (facebook, twitter, pinterest … etc.) and the number of views grows. If they take the time to share it, they must find the cake quite special.

2. “There are members who have huge followings on Facebook … they are more likely to appear in the top 3.”
It’s true, but this is how it works everywhere. Don’t you think that fans could favorite their cakes as well? Then we could say that it’s not fair, because they have more fans.

3. “To me it then becomes more of a competition than an honest representation of what is actually good.”
Daily Top 15 is just a way to reward the special cakes posted in the last 24 hours. And yes, special equals popular here. There are no prizes here and there is no jury here.

And one last thing for all, don’t assume that what’s good for you is good for everybody else.

@EZSweetShop: Don’t forget that there is large “CAKES” button on the top of the page that points to the latest cakes directly. Just for your interest: around 70% of all Visits goes to Cakes page. Only 30% goes to all other pages. So most people don’t miss it.

@SarahBeth: You are right, number of views bear a much lower amount of importance than the other ingredients and we’re constantly reevaluating the amount of importance of each piece in the rating puzzle.

tortacouture ...

If they take the time to share it, they must find the cake quite special.
This is all assuming that this is why people are getting more views, and I don’t think it is

It’s true, but this is how it works everywhere. Don’t you think that fans could favorite their cakes as well? Then we could say that it’s not fair, because they have more fans.
Where else does this happen in the cake world? Your main competitor is Cake Central and that is not how it’s done there – it is determined by favourites alone and as much as I am no longer a fan of cake central, I prefer it and I dare say I am not alone. Fans favouriting and fans viewing a cake is not the same. I am a fan of some of the users here and just because I look at their cakes, it doesn’t mean I like them enough to favourite them – if I like it, I will favourite it – I think that’s a fairly normal reaction if you like something that you love, hence I believe it to be a more accurate representation of what is good. If fans want to favourite a cake purely because they are a fan, then that’s their own business, but I don’t think that happens all that often.

Daily Top 15 is just a way to reward the special cakes posted in the last 24 hours. And yes, special equals popular here. There are no prizes here and there is no jury here.
I don’t understand what you mean here – it was the members of this site that asked for a top 3 category because we all like the accolade if we make a cake that is worthy of the top spot. Therefore in essence we are ALL jury members when it comes to the top cakes – if we are not judging cakes, then what is the point of a top 3 and how do they get selected?

What it all comes down to for me – is that if I regularly see cakes in the top 3 and it is clear to most people that they don’t belong there because there are better cakes in the lineup, then the top 3 just becomes a bit of a joke and really pointless. It’s all fine to say that we are not here to judge each other, but really that is EXACTLY why we are here. Judging is not necessarily a bad thing, you can judge something and LOVE it, just like you can judge something and hate it – anytime you like or dislike anything in life, you have to judge it first.

I’m happy to admit that perhaps I am the only one who thinks like this and if I am then by all means keep things the way they are, but for me personally, it takes away the thrill of posting my cakes if I find it all a bit pointless.

I don’t think anyone here has assumed that what is good for them is good for everyone else – but if the members can’t voice their opinion, then it really isn’t a forum and we run the risk of becoming another cake central where users opinions are not counted.

Michal Bulla ...

Thanks for your reply.

My comment related to your assumption that what is good for you is good for everybody was related to cakes, not to your opinion. Sorry for confusion.

So I don’t understand why you think that members can’t voice their opinion here. Your post is still here, nothing was censored and I took the time to post a long reply to all your suggestions/concerns. And you’re of course always welcome to post your feedback anytime in the future because this is an open forum.

tortacouture ...

Sorry, in relation to your comment about what was good for me wasn’t good for everybody, it wasn’t clear that you were talking about cakes, I thought you meant the format for the top 3 – so based on that assumption, that’s why I commented about users being able to post their opinions. It’s easy to misread something so apologies for the confusion.

Elena Z ...

@Michal – I don’t think I’ve ever clicked on the “Cakes” button at the top of the page, until just now. My go to is the homepage and what is trending and what is new. I will even just click on the giant CakesDecor at the top of the page to go to the homepage if I’m in a different area on the site.

I do agree that sometimes, the “Top 3” and sometimes even the “Top 15” are questionable to me but I factor, in my head, the time of day (here where I live and then around the world) amongst other things and since I, of course, do not know what algorithm you are using or what formula to get those numbers, I can’t say why they are there other than assume it is by most views in the previous 24 hour cycle. I’ve honestly even thought about waiting to post a cake till the following morning so that I had a better chance of it getting more exposure. I’m being honest. We ALL like to have our work recognized and appreciated. Some are obviously more talented than other and everyone, of course, deserves a chance at the top 3 but when you look at someone’s work that has made it there and look at your own, or that of someone else’s, that you can honestly say, without prejudice, is much better and was posted at the same time, you start to wonder if it’s just because ppl might be following this caker and get the emails or notifications that they’ve posted something new and go directly to it or maybe it’s something else. I don’t know and I’m honestly not trying to sound whiney about it. My own creations are amateur at best and I haven’t reached the Top 3 yet because I haven’t done anything worthy of it……yet! I know that but there are plenty of others who have created wonderful pcs of artwork that haven’t gotten anywhere near the top 15 who, in my eyes, should have!
Again, just my 2 cents, for whatever they’re worth.

Thanks again to TortaCouture for bringing this subject up and Michal for answering with great responses!

lori ...

I have noticed if the photo isn’t clear or just a small portion of the cake or dark, there are a lot of views to get a better look. I do it and a lot of the time it doesn,t mean I “like” this cake, it means I can’t see the detail. I agree that it shouldn’t be a competition but should reflect new technics and “out of the box” cakes. Most of the time I agree with the picks but every once in a while I scratch my head.

BAKED ...

I love and respect Torta for posting this question and Michal for responding Im sure there are a lot of decorators out there feeling the same way. We all would love a spot on the TOP 3 its recognition and it feels good but I have seen some AMAZING work go unnoticed and its a shame, both sides have raised some interesting points and its forums like this that allows us to work together and make this site the best it can be.

Michal Bulla ...

Alright. The question is: Why some amazing work go unnoticed?
It’s because there are lot of cakes posted every day and there are only few members, who take a look at all of them and comment, favorite the ones they like. If only 10 members use to comment/favorite regularly and we have around 100 cakes posted every day, some of amazing work go unnoticed. Once there are 100 or 1000 members who comment/favorite regularly and there are 100 cakes posted every day, all good work would be noticed.
Next time you’ll see a cake/cookie/cupcake you like, post a short comment or add it to your favorites.

tortacouture ...

Fair enough, I don’t agree but that’s probably just me.

I always comment on or favourite cakes I love and I dare say everyone else does too – there have been instances where there has been a cake in position two, with zero comments yet a better cake further down has had several comments but less views and more favourites. If views don’t contribute that much to the score how is the scenario above even possible??

SarahBeth3 ...

Maybe I do it different than everyone else, but I only favorite a cake if there is something about it that I will want to refer back to at some point. I can recall favoriting a cake that was a mess but I thought the border might work particularly well on a cake I was designing for an upcoming event. So maybe that’s why I one of a few who feel the views should be left as is. Honestly though, while it’s such a cool feeling to get in the top three, it’s really not that big of a deal when you think about it. If you are proud of your work, done your best, your client loved it and you come away having learned something or making someone’s day, then that’s what really matters. Top three is just a bonus. And, tortacouture, I know just from looking at your cakes, you’ve done a whole lot of “making someone’s day”. You’re work is beautiful, even if it doesn’t always make it to the top 3. :) Keep it up!

Corrie ...

hmmm….maybe the ‘not-good-enough-for-top-3’ top 3 cakes in question have been some of mine,lol….sometimes I’m suprised when I’ve made the top 3 and there are other way more awesome cakes, not there in the top row. but, I do believe SarahBeth3 is correct – top 3 is a bonus, but really the point is is doing a great job for the customer…I find it far more rewarding to read a customer’s FB comment on my cake saying that it was the best or was so delicious or the highlight of the party. Of course, that being said it is a thrill to make top3 here or front page of Cake Central….I regularly post on both and if you are looking for a more equalizing aspect to having your work graded then post on Cake Central- you won’t get an warm fuzzies and will be sensored- but their cake ‘rank’ is hard and fair to climb. I’m glad both sites are different, I would be sad if Michal made a replica site to CC.

tortacouture ...

Hmmmmm I’d be inclined to respectfully disagree. Granted I ALWAYS want my customers to be happy and great feedback from them is paramount, however all that aside, cake muggles don’t know squat about cake decorating! lol. The feedback from my peers is (dare I say it) way more exciting to me. Cake muggles don’t understand the amount of time, sweat and tears that goes into making a cake, but my peers do. If I get a comment from one of my cake idols, giving me a ‘job well done’, it is THAT, that makes my day, because they can see all the tiny little details and realise the amount of time and effort that goes into doing those things.
Granted Cake Central is off my radar now and we all know why, but I way prefer the way they organise the top cakes, but once again, this is just my opinion and I understand that’s not the same for everyone. I don’t want Cakes Decor to become anything like Cake Central, but I don’t want it to be the complete antithesis either, I just personally would prefer the top cakes to be more fair and I don’t think it is just now.

Anyway I love a good debate, so no hard feelings to anyone :)